It’s a bit of both. I think “capture the essence” is exactly right. As Matt mentioned, we were interested in exploring other spaces that have a visual representation of a brand, like fashion. That is in your face and overt and a real challenge to the normified, minimal, white, black type that you see in any other gallery space. I understand why a lot of those spaces do that — they’re trying to be as quiet as possible, and we thought there was a real opportunity to be really loud and kind of aggressive in a way. Because this space, this gallery, this idea is doing something different and it is challenging the mould, and so it should really embody that idea. So, some of the references, we were kind of like, “Well, who are other trailblazers of their spaces?” Whether it’s Comme des Garçons or Virgil Abloh or — these kinds of people that are disruptive. And we kind of thought, “what are they doing?” They’re being uncompromising, they’re confident, they’re loud, and they’re in your face. And so we thought, there’s some brand language we can build on from that. Such as this red, this red that is really kind of vibrant, it’s the opposite of white and black, you know? It’s loud, it’s out there. But what I thought was really interesting, and it’s something that we love you know, when Matt comes to us, when any client comes to us and there is a sense of collaboration. So, Matt had drawn on a napkin, this idea of sort of system for how — he was like, “Oh, I’ve got to write the dates’, and you know, “There are 5 shows and maybe we can kind of put them in these quadrants” and he drew this grid, and he wrote the dates in the quadrants. And we’re like, “Brilliant, there’s your logo”, you know? Basically, all we really did is we took this sketch that he had, and we kind of go, “Well, this is the grid system. He’s made the grid system for us, let’s bring this to life”.

In terms of the brand system when it sits alongside a variety of different works, it is that balance between having dialogue with the work but also allowing the respectful presentation of that work. And so no matter the diversity of what was kind of the content that was plugged into it, it’s a matter of ensuring that the attitude of the space and the brand is present. But that in equal part the content is presented in a true fashion or a pure fashion where it isn’t — its meaning, or its intent isn’t obscured or abstracted from the original artist’s intent. Beyond the aesthetic or the narrative kind of component of that, pragmatically it just allows for an operational efficiency. Which is incredibly important for an organisation like this, you know, you don’t have unlimited resources and then those resources are broader than just financial, they’re time based resources. So every time you’re putting on a show or anytime an opportunity comes up, regardless of whether that’s a new show or whether that’s a new format, like presenting an artwork in a book, or a piece of merchandise, or a website — allowing the organisation to preempt and know how the brand behaves, so it can make the most of that opportunity.

I think, for continuity of the brand. Which is up to the artist as well, but that’s got to be clear. So, if you’re chopping and changing for every show and every artist has a different idea as to how they see their work and how they present it and then just putting a very mixed message out there. I think, especially if we use our posters for example or magazine advertising, it’s all text based. So, in a way it’s very respectful in that there’s never a question in terms of hierarchy and where the work’s sitting and where the brand’s sitting. I think that very text driven idea, it’s more about seeing the grid and “oh there’s another show on”. That’s probably our first point of call and then the other thing, the idea of pushing the artist’s name in a sense, as opposed to that – being a bit more powerful than you know, a poster that’s got an image you maybe would just walk past. I’m very interested in design that has a strong link to a practical way of approaching it.

It’s a great point, that most people have a great visual recall for a work or something, “I’ve seen that painting before, I’ve seen that sculpture before”. But they probably don’t always remember or always remember the artist. So, by hearing (about) the artist through typography we are kind of promoting them and their name more. Because that’s the thing people can go home and google later, whereas you can’t google a painting.

It’s interesting because it’s a juxtaposition of the traditional gallery model, where the name of the artist isn’t necessarily up in lights. It’s not about theoretically building the profile of the artist, it’s about presenting that body of work, and Grau is almost counter to that. Even though you’re not seeing the visual part of the work but you are seeing immediately the name of the artist. So in one way they are really playing a huge role of building the profile of that artist and the self-sufficiency of empowering not only the market, or connecting people with art as a whole, but also that artist as a practitioner, as well.

One of the things we were interested in and this kind of links back to Matt’s art practice, we’re obviously looking at a lot of his works, particularly some of his works while working in Berlin, and there is this kind of guerilla approach to his own artwork. So tape as an idea in itself, it’s quite lo-fi. It comes in red and it’s quite guerilla. So you can grab this tape and you can do your own marketing, guerilla marketing. You can tape over things in this strip and you can tape that grid system up anywhere and you’ve kind of got your own billboard. Without having to take a big ad spot out under some bridge, you can just do it yourself with tape. We love that idea and that approach. That kind of DIY aspect to the tape.

It really comes back to the model of doing something different within the space. As Matt alluded to, art as a sector is one of the most progressive sectors in terms of creativity and in terms of the work that the practitioners are doing within this space, and what they’re exploring through their discourse. But the gallery model per se wasn’t necessarily keeping up with that. And if you relate that — it reminds me of the Dadaists. Where they are kind of coming back (to) the origins or the birth cries of modernism. Where they’re questioning, what is art? Actually kind of pinpoint that down and sometimes within models, the conversations we are having at the start is maybe that’s been lost. So could a brand or could Grau re-empower people to think again, or to question again, what is art? Or what is a gallery? Or what is a bar? What is an art experience? Not only within society at large but the role that it plays in their lives. So through this tape tool, it allows you to apply that in a very simplified format in that grid, over the top over anything. And with that intervention you are essentially evoking the question of, “is this art?” Or asking someone to look at whatever that subject matter is again. Which was quite an interesting component, that came out of the dialogue of the origins of the brand.

Yes, we used a typeface called GT Cinetype. Which was based on an old subtitling typeface that hadn’t really ever been used, other than in the cinema world and that was completely irrelevant to the choice behind it. The choice behind it was that if you zoomed in on this typeface, you look at it, it’s made of these rectangular angles and it’s just like someone has layered — if you were to grab a bit of tape and you were to draw the letter “g” on a wall, you would kind of tear a bit off, you would do another angle, you would do another angle. You don’t have these curvatures and so that’s kind of the detail of where it came from. We liked that you might not even see it in this 9-point type but there is a conceptual link in this typeface choice that links to the idea of the tape.

Yeah definitely. I guess what we were interested in doing was breaking down some of those boundaries to what we perceive in the commercial space. You know, a lot of the time they’re not the most — if you’re not familiar with visiting those sorts of places they’re not the most comfortable. Comparing that maybe to a museum experience where it’s probably a little bit more welcoming. There’s also a way of engaging with an exhibition, whether it’s a bag, or a postcard, or a t-shirt or — and I really like that idea of being able to build that connection with the work. And maybe other than buying a catalogue with a show, if you can’t afford the artwork, there’s nothing to format that personal relationship with the show, or the work. So that was the main motivation to some of our merchandise. A, to connect with the show, but I think also a bit of like signalling. If you’re carrying a Grau tote, it’s putting it out there that you’re interested in contemporary art.

Yes.

In terms of the format as well, it really allows you to explore the formal qualities of the brand and how they can be reinforced. So again, the tape as a device. This rectangular red totem that expresses tape in one way, but it also expresses a handle here. So as it continues to adapt and morph and apply across a bunch of different interfaces, so too does the complexity, or the pluralism in which people may perceive the brand and the possibilities of what might be offered in that space.

There was a moment where we’ve used, — it’s kind of a bit of a cliché in the art world, the red dot. You know, you see the little red dots next to the art, and we kind of used that to indicate which drink you’re having on the cocktail bottle. We’d be lying if we said we weren’t having fun coming up with other merchandise ideas, you know, like, a builder’s pencil. Like, why is that? It was kind of going, how do we break the mould of what’s traditional? There’s the catalogue, there’s the postcard. It’s like, “well, what’s true to Grau?” OK there’s a tote bag, there’s a crazy big neon poster, there’s a pencil, there’s a key ring, there’s all kinds of — there’s a glass with a dick on it. You know, there’s all this great merch and some of the art can kind of link back. Matt’s own work is linked into some of the merchandise as well. Which is a great extension for that and again for people, you don’t want it to be inaccessible. So people can come there, and they can go great, I can take this glass home for 15 dollars and it (will) be my memento for the show.

With a dick on it. (laughs)

I think you touched on something interesting there, Luke. Around having fun with it and this is something I think gets lost in a lot of projects, practices, businesses. Was that the attitude not not necessarily of being uncompromising and those sorts of things, but there’s also a levity to it, there’s an enjoyment, this isn’t life and death. There is a sense of humour and sense of lightness of spirit in the way that the work and the brand has kind of been created, but then also presented to market that even though it’s not overtly communicated through the written word or through anything like that, I think that energy comes across to people that are experiencing it. So as Matt mentioned, in terms of breaking down barriers for people who may not have felt a resonance or that the art space was open to them, or they were allowed, or they had permission for that space. Grau really wants to be open for those people and that lightness of spirit or that fun in terms of the creation process and that energy coming through really kind of permeates into the kind of demographics that come across to the space.

I think that’s a really good point. You know, talking about why perhaps the commercial space was a bit stale, why it was a bit boring. You don’t describe serious commercial galleries as ever being fun. You can take yourself very seriously and the work can be serious but it doesn’t mean it also can’t be fun. And outside of maybe student shows or artist run initiatives, that word, “fun” you would never use in a conversation about a show and there’s no reason why that should be neglected. It’s pretty off-putting when you’re like, “well, that doesn’t sound like much fun.” Who wants to go see that show? That’s a good point, I’ve never thought about it much.

One of the reasons we kind of talked about using the silver is, and it kind of comes back to that idea we’ve been talking about where something original doesn’t have to cost the earth, either. You don’t need this paper harvested from Egypt, 1962 to be a true representation of this brand or be a representation of quality, you can do it with off the shelf kind of things. You can go down to Bunnings, you can find some interesting clips, you can find some off the shelf silver zip bags, you can find heat press silver bags and you’ve got a really strong visual language through packaging. That doesn’t look like anything else but it happens to be off the shelf and DIY, and then you just wrap it in some red tape and you’ve got this authentic Grau Projekt brand expression. We love that, that it doesn’t need to cost the earth. It can be off the shelf, and that’s exciting.

I guess we’ve stood out a lot quicker than we were expecting to in terms of building the confidence of collectors, or the calibre of artists we’ve managed to attract really quickly. But probably the biggest testament is the fact that we’ve sold so many totes, that people want to walk around the streets with our brand. It’s probably the best indication that you’ve done something right not only from the design point of view, but the product and what that stands for, it resonates with people. So our totes don’t have an artist name or anything on there, they’re literally just — we’ve talked about the tape before, it’s almost like an advertisement for the tape. That for me, that works.